MATCH SCORING SYSTEM

[teamunimod]

Since we are about to have our 1st All Japan Tournament, I thought it would be a good idea to give members  information about how matches are drawn and scored. They are different between sports, but the principle is the same: God of Random decides!

Besides interaction, the teams are limited per university to allow both loss and win while still having your muse doing well or badly, at your own discretion. Just because your team lost doesn't mean you muse didn't play their best if that is not what you want. Yet, having playable characters in your team earns them special points or handicaps to make results more realistic.

NPC and playable teams without any character being played can still win. The reason being that Toyama is one prefecture out of 47, it would be very unrealistic and rather silly if only these 8 universities could win best 8 all the time when there are around 780 universities in the country. 

Now, for details:

TENNIS & BASEBALL
It runs on a best of 5 basis. A sequence of 5 numbers (1 or 2) is drawn for each match using random.org. The team shown on top in the brackets (in the tournament website that is always posted) is '1' the team to show below is '2'. The first to get 3 out of five wins. In the result, it will be should 1-0.

Handicap:
If a team has a playable character, it automatically has an advantage over a team without any (NPC or otherwise). If in the random draw the result is against them, each player has one extra draw as handicap. If both teams have the same number of players and no special player (see below) then the 1st draw is final.

Special Players with 3 draws: Yukimura, Echizen
Special Players with 2 draws: Sanada, Atobe, Tezuka, Shiraishi, Chitose, Fuji, Yuushi, some highs schoolers.

These are examples, will add/change as if people aren't happy. 

Example: TOGEI vs HOSEI

1st Draw: 1 2 2 1 2

Hosei is the winner without the handicap, but:
Yukimura + Yuuji = 4
Atobe + Tezuka (coach +1) = 3

Togei has a balance of 1 draw. If Togei does not win the 1st draw, then there is another. If they still don't win, the Hosei is the winner. If Togei wins the 2nd draw, they then they are the winner.

In this way, NPC and teams with no players can still win against the odds and add to the history of the schools and tournaments.


VOLLEYBALL
The same as the above. However, each volleyball player only counts as one, with exceptions:
Hinata + Kageyama = 3 draws between them

The results for Volleyball are show as the result of best of 5 sets. Winning set showing '1' is the brackets.


SWIMMING & CYCLING
There two sports run on point basis. Their names are put in a random sequence from 1 to 16. 
1st = 10 points
2nd = 8 points
3rd = 7 points
4th = 6 points
5th = 5 points
6th to 8th = 2 points
9th to 16th = disqualified (swimming) or 0 (cycling)

Another draw is taken and points are counted again. For swimming only 8 teams, cycling, 16. Points are added and the result for swimming is given after adding 3 points for each playable swimmer. 

Another draw is taken for cycling with the 16 teams. Points are added and 3 points are granted to each cyclist. 


BASKETBALL
This is on score basis with several rules and handicaps. For for qualifiers, round robin, Best 16 of any tournament or practice matches, two numbers are generated for each match between 70 - 110. For semis and finals, between 80 - 120.  The 1st number represent the team on top (in the brackets) and the 2nd, the team below. The winning team is the one with the highest score.

Handicap:
GoM (Akashi, Murasakibara, Aomine, Kise, Midorima, Kuroko), Kagami = 3 points added to final score. 
Uncrowded Kings (Kiyoshi, Hanamiya, Kotaro, Reo, Ekichi) = 2 points added to the final score
All others = 1 point

Rules:
1. No team with a GoM player can lose with a difference of 15+ points before added points. If the scores show that difference, there is another draw until the difference is less than 15 or the GoM team wins. If both teams have an GoM the rule stands. The 1st team to win with a difference of less than 15 is the winner.
2. No team with 2 or more GoM can lose with a difference of bigger than 10 points before added. Same as above, but a GoM team playing against a 2 GoM team, the former cannot win with a difference larger than 10, while the latter can't win with a difference of 15+.

For rule 1 and 2, if the score is 89 - 87 to the non GoM team, then the GoM still had +3, adding up to 90, so they win.

3. No NPC team can win with a difference of 15+ over a team with U.K. player.  
4. GoM team can only win over U.K. team with a difference of less than 20 points.


DRAWS
This is the order of play, how teams are paired to play.

Practice matches: 100% Random

InterDai: 100% Random

Prefectural/Regionals: Each payable team is matched wit an NPC for the 1st round. 1st winner qualifies for nationals

Chubu: Payable teams + 16 NPC enter a triangle qualifier block chosen 100% randomly. All playable teams go through to Best 16, some NPCs are disqualified. What team each plays in the best 16 will depend on whether they won or came in 2nd in their qualifier block.
All Japan: Only 2 or 3 teams from Chubu are allowed in the Nationals depending on Prefectural and Chubu tournaments. There are 8 reasons in Japan making a total of 16 teams. Only or 3 are playable and will be set so they do not meet before semi-finals (if 3) or finals (if 2). NPC teams may still win All Japan.

Nationals: Similar to above, however, only some playable schools will qualify, so the tournament will starts with either best 16 or quarter finals. It has not yet been decided. It's not guarantee that a playable team will win nationals, but at least one will get to the final match.


Any questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Comments

[mistgenius]

First off, I want to say thank you for taking the time to explain the scoring system!

Second, there is one little thing that I would like to point out in the rules section of Basketball. "3. No NPC team can win with a difference of 15+ over a team with U.K. player." In the recent Chubu tournament, Hanamiya and Momoi's school Hosei lost to an NPC team with a 110-81 score. That's more than a 15 point difference. Not going to ask for the scores to be fixed because it's done and over with but I want to keep that in mind for next time! :')

And finally, I'd also like to ask but do the managers and medics count for extra points? From what I understood in this post, coaches do. If not, I do feel like a special exception should be made for Momoi and possibly Miki. Momoi's a part of the GoM and in canon, she analyzes her opponents data, gives the information to the players so that they can read their opponents moves. She was a big help for Teiko and Touou. Miki in canon helps fix up bicycles and even provides new bicycles. So, I feel like they should count for something? <:

[teamunimod]

That's a new rule because we realised the scores were not being decent of fair. I know it's shit cos it's half through the tournament, but this is the 1st time we are doing it in the comm, so please accept my apologies. We are trying to do it better and fairer and still random with with a more realistic balance. It's a new comm and we're also learning how to deal with tournaments.

Managers and medics don't count. Coaches count as 1. Problem is that coaches have a bigger responsibility and influence in the team. If I say managers have 1 point, then all managers would have 1 point. Or only players have points. I would rather go with the latter since we are already seeing a great disparity between Togei and other teams. Providing bikes and fixing them doesn't change team tactics, but I suppose Momoi data gathering could be. I would rather review the rules and allow her to be a coach than give all managers an extra point.

[shinayaka]

Thanks for the explanation!

Some suggestions that probs can be considered:
1. Rerandomise the winning team if they've already won for a couple of times in a row. I think it'll be fairer to all the other teams that way?
2. Including canonly skilled/trained non-player team members as the extra points. Hana pretty much said my point above but I believe Yachi too, for example, since she was an experienced manager in high school. As opposed to those who had no prior experience and becoming manager for the first time in game.

[teamunimod]

1. I understand that you are upset about the loss. But if I start taking into my own hands the decision of 'you won enough' rather than leave at random, then it will cause even more grief. Random is the fairest possible thing. Can you specify 'winning a couple of times in a row'? Do you mean tournament wins? Match wins? This is the 1st chucu tournament, so there is only one winner so far (there will be anyway).

2. I said to Hana that I would the rather not grant points/draws to any other character that isn't a player. In that case, Tezuka would no get his 1 point as a coach because there aren't many managers even in canon of most series. A team like Togei would have yet another extra draw. We may then agree to simply remove coaches points.

[shinayaka]

1. Oh I am not, please don't turn this personal as that is not what this is supposed to be. My muse may be upset, but my muse's opinions don't always equal mine. I'm not trying to fight you, I'm giving inputs. You might forget that I have one other muse, Ennoshita, who is also in Togei and winning :) I'm speaking in general, so matches wins. It's not so much your own decision as much as the statistics, tbh. You can easily see how many teams each team win and when it's too much, it's too much, yeah?

That said, I believe just randomising everything without extra points is also something to think about.

[teamunimod]

It's not as simple as you make it. In the end, a team will have to wil 4 matches to win the tournament. Both teams will have won the same number of consecutive matches to get there. It doesn't work like that. All teams will have to lose in the quarter finals. If you are talking about tournaments, then this is the 1st we have played in the comm where playable schools drop before the end.

I suggested to Soup that is HQ muns would like to get together and choose a better point system based on character level, that might work better. Also I suggest that muns can drop their character points of they believe that are not as good.

As a mod, not having handicap is easier for me. As a volleyball mun I don't mind if it's randomised without any weight based on character. As a KnB mun I I don't agree with random with no character weight because it doesn't make sense as far as I can see. There is also a possibility of having one sport with no weight and completely random and another with it as well.

[heyheyheey]

Thank you for taking the time to explain about the system!

I agree with schools with playable characters having an advantage over NPCs + schools without a playable character. However, I find the scoring system very unfair.

With that system, schools with a lot of characters would be pretty hard to beat, e.g., Togei in volleyball and Johoga in basketball. It's not like our muses are the only ones playing in the team, there are NPCs in the teams too. For example Ennoshita doesn't have a stellar volleyball skill in canon, he might just be at the same level as any other NPC character in the team. I find it strange that he would have the same advantage as Kuroo, Ushijima, and Bokuto who are canonically very exceptionally skilled characters. I think if you're going with the handicap system in basketball, it would make sense to do it for volleyball as well. I read in the group chat that the scoring system isn't used in volleyball because it's a team sport, but basketball is a team sport too?

Also, I think managers should be counted in as well even if they're not players because they're there to support the team even if they're not playing in the court, and they're just as important.

If we're talking about realistic here, it's kind of hard to believe an art school like Togei keeps winning but a sports school like Shirataiiku doesn't.

All in all, in my personal opinion, it's best to go with all random all the way instead of going with the scoring system. It's more fair to everyone, and anything can happen in a match even if they have good players. Just my two cents.

[teamunimod]

Playable characters always have an extra draw over NPC schools.

The NPC can be better than Hinata and Kageyama combined too, but they don't exist, so I can't really measure their skills, so a playable characters is always at an advantage. I can give Ennoshita a point, but maybe if the mun of a certain character would like to remove his point, that could be an option?
The difference between KnB and Haikyuu is that in canon, a GoM can win a game by himself, whereas in HQ there isn't. There is also not a group of players in HQ that are told to be the best and all players are the best like in KnB, so it will be hard to have the same scale for HQ that KnB has.

What i can suggest is, what if HQ muns get together and make a list of all characters and grant the points between 0, 1 and 2 and then send the list over? We would look at it and take it into consideration. But please, keep in mind that not everyone will agree with the point system other muns chose for them if they joined the comm after the decision has been made.

We can also grant muns the option to lower their characters points if they don't believe them to be strong.

My stance on managers will remain as no points. If everyone thinks it's unfair that coaches has points, then I'll removed the coaches points and leave it to players only.

Assuming that an art school is worse at sports than a sports uni is just too much assumption. You can always saying that a science and a law school is too hard to have them practicing as much too. This is a list of the intercollegiate basketball tournament winners:
2000 - Aoyama Gakuin
2001 - Nippon Sport Science
2002 - Senshu
2003 - Nihon
2004 - Keio
2005 - Tokai
2006 - Tokai
2007 - Aoyama Gakuin
2008 - Keio

Apart from Nippon, none of the other universities are Sport. They did win a lot before 2000 but being a sport uni doesnt necessarily mean you will win over an art school or vice versa.

If most people prefer that way, then sure, we can all have results without handicaps and just always do random 1 draw. Personally, as a player and not a mod, I don't agree.

[heyheyheey]

Ushijima and Bokuto pretty much score half the points in one set by their spikes in canon, so yes there are difference in skills in volleyball too. But they can't do it without their team, just as each GoM member can't play a whole game by themselves. I don't know if you read KuroBas, but in the end team play trumps individual skills, it's kind of the point of the series. :)

Of course being a sport school doesn't guarantee you to win. And I'm not saying that it's unlikely for a law/science/art school to win either. I'm saying it's unlikely that they keep winning. If you see in the list, the winners all alternate between schools.

I stand voting on random on everything.

[rinhirakoba]

Thanks for all the information.

Just on the special players list for the tennis matches, since they're the ones I'm most familiar with:

Here's a link to the U-17 team in Shinpuri. The middle schoolers in particular are the top players of the middle school tier, and I think should be considered as such when it comes to the draw method in this game.

Outside of Shinpuri and U-17, Rikkai has been referenced as "team of 7 Tezuka's". Kintarou is seem as the same level as Echizen. And if you're considering Oshitari as the tensai of Hyotei and therefore on the same level as someone like Fuji, then perhaps Zaizen, who is the tensai of Shiten, should be there as well. Tachibana Kippei was said to have only lost to Chitose because he purposely didn't aim for his weak side and is on the same level/better than him.

The Jimmies are Nationally ranked players and are therefore awesome

[teamunimod]

If we ever get HS then names should be added. I'm sorry for not saying it was more like and example. In all honesty, I forgot to add Zai to the list, I think all tensai with unknown qualities should still be tensai. I also forgot Kin-chan, and he would definitely be up there with echizen and Yukimura.

Do you think there should be a wider range of point? Because I dont believe Zai or Fuji should have the same points as Atobe or Tezuka. I would be willing to bump some to 4 points, other to 3 and tensais to 2.

[rinhirakoba]

No, I think that the list of U-17 representatives should probably be used as a way of explicitly saying: these characters are all at the same level, rather than using personal opinions in saying Fuji is at the same level or lower than Atobe or Tezuka. Even the relative strengths of Atobe, Tezuka and Sanada could be argued using canon evidence. The U-17 list just gives us a definite, canon list of characters who have been placed as "the best" in the series, trying to separate into wider ranges of points just potentially leads us to personal opinion and away from canon facts.


Jimmies deserve 3 points

[teamunimod]

I don't understand that list. I'm on my phone so it looked like a high schooler list. I need to look at it again and it does have enough information then it's easier. Not much as personal opinion on Fuji as it is the fact that he never own against Tezuka, it wasn't completely unfounded. >.<

I'll look into the list.

3 points, - 2 for being unremarkable on their own. Horio gets - whatever amount of years he has been practicing tennis

[rinhirakoba]

But Fuji's on the list of U-17 representatives, he had that marvellous attempted come back against Shiraishi, he won against Niou, and he won against Akaya (again, both of them are from a team of 7 Tezuka's). He's proven multiple times that he's at a very high level.

Keigo Atobe
Seiichi Yukimura
Kuranosuke Shiraishi
Genichiro Sanada
Jin Akutsu
Kintarō Tōyama
Marui Bunta
Shusuke Fuji
Masaharu Niō
Ishida Gin
Shuichiro Oishi
Eishirou Kite
Kirihara Akaya
Ryoma Echizen

There's the list for you of Middle Schooler representatives.

+5 if they play together and they bore their opponents with their Jimmying skills

[teamunimod]

Are all these players the same level?

lets just have them wil all tournaments by default, even if they are not in the same school

[rinhirakoba]

You could argue for ranking within it, but I think for the sake of the game, it could just be taken as, these are the top players from canon (+ Tezuka, who deserted to Germany :|) and should be the ones treated as such in your draw system. Everyone else goes down to a regular level?

nah, they only shine truly when they are together. By themselves, their brilliance is hidden by buckets on top of their flashlights...

[teamunimod]

So 2 points for that list +Tez, 1 point for the rest so they have some advantage over NPC teams and those without players.

how sad ;_; ... maybe one day they will be together again and rule the world